Curse

Ceifador · Jun 14, 2009, 04:23 AM // 04:23

I think it would be good if the weapons dropped in Prophecies and Nightfall could have removable inscriptions and items like shields, wands and focus items should be able to have shield handles, wand wrappings and focus cores removed too. If this is possible in NF and EotN, why not also in Prophecies and Factions?

Shriketalon · Jun 14, 2009, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Basically, the community will not have it.

Those that have a lot of expensive items from prophecies and factions don't want their treasures becoming less valuable. Inscription items would diminish their worth because it is a better, more flexible system. Therefore, massive protests follow any requests to put inscriptions into proph/factions.

There are usually excuses about the "excitement of finding an item that actually works" among all the merchant fodder, or "nostalgia", but it basically boils down to people who don't want to lose wealth.

Saph · Jun 14, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Have you taken into consideration that NF and EotN were made after Proph and Factions?

Most Proph and Factions weapons can be found in NF and/or EotN with an inscript, so I see no need for for them to completely change the weapons system of those campaigns.

MirkoTeran · Jun 14, 2009, 07:52 AM // 07:52

This was discussed many times, and will go down in flames as it always does.

As for the suggestion: hell no!

MMSDome · Jun 14, 2009, 08:03 AM // 08:03

/not signed

reason: nostalgia.

MagmaRed · Jun 14, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Gives people a reason to buy Nightfall and Eye of the North.

zwei2stein · Jun 14, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Those that have a lot of expensive items from prophecies and factions don't want their treasures becoming less valuable. Inscription items would diminish their worth because it is a better, more flexible system. Therefore, massive protests follow any requests to put inscriptions into proph/factions.

Err, no, i think you do not understand what makes those items valuable and hence have no clue what inscriptions would do to their value.

Its about rarity: the rarer, the more valuable item is. Its not about being actually usefull or good looking. Just rarity. Discontinued items have this funny thing about rarity ... they are freaking rare and become even rarer over the time. Anyone who dealt with hod-swords before factions will tell you that. 2k item at begining of being discontinued ended up being worth of 'fow armor kit' (half a stack of ectoes, half a stack of shards and 100k)

So, introducing inspriptions to prophecies/factions would make owners of rare stuff really, REALLY, happy because at that moment their valuables price would start multiplying. Which would be complete opposite of what is happening now: More and more prefect uninscript items added to economy and rares becoming less rare.

Final clue: Z-chest drops every rare priphecies/factions item in inscribable. Did absolutelly nothing to uninscript-highend.

---

Anyhow, uninscript has its uses: It is only source of dual modded offhands and armor vs foe offhands, 15/-1 energy/hp weapons and decreased condition length staves.

For this reason, I support this: make certain % of drops inscripable everywhere and certain % of drops uninscripable, also everywhere.

ps: wtb 15/-1 hp regen weapon ^^

MithranArkanere · Jun 15, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saph

Have you taken into consideration that NF and EotN were made after Proph and Factions?

Most Proph and Factions weapons can be found in NF and/or EotN with an inscript, so I see no need for for them to completely change the weapons system of those campaigns.

Eh... no.

Thing is like this:

1.- Prophecies. The game is starting. It has few skins. Rarity is added to them by adding a variable property that can't be modified. That way, even when you'll be finding the same 10 swords again and again, one may be considered more rare than other because it has a property the other doesn't.
2.- Factions. More people, more money, more time more experience in using the modeling tools... all that means means more skins...
But they also turned many Prophecies skins 'core', making them drop in Factions too and by allowing the entrance to the realms of the gods from Factions (turning those areas and their skins into 'core' too). This also reduces the numbers of Prophecies-only skins so much that they are... well... in some cases you can count them with one hand. Although Factions is more PvP-oriented, it carries the old drop system why? For the same reason there was no item creation panel... either no one thought about that, or there was no time to add it. They just used the old system beause it was what they had.
3.- Nightfall and later. It adds LOTS of skins. a HUGE whole lot. They add the PvP item creation panel, and so they add a way to change fixed the variable property in items by turning into a moddable variable property. They see how useful this is, and so make it the default drop system form them on. Since there are so many different skins, there is no need to keep the old artificial rarity. They bring real rarity by making some of those skins drop less frequently than others or in very few places. There are so many that they an do so while still having many different skin drops in many places. There are also more different weapon to drop: Scythes, Spears and Paragon shields. All that feeds rarity. The more different items exist, the more rare the single occurrence of one of them is.

Now, we have a campaign with almost no unique skins and very few different skin drops. So it doesn't really matter if they drop inscribed or not, since you can find them somewhere else quite easily. People will just keep merching almost everything they get, and sell to old schoolers the maxed items... to pay for inscribed ones, XD.

And then a campaign with unique skins that won't drop inscribed anywhere else but three reward chests, this ones being the only real problem about acquisition that I can see. Yeah, you can get them in the Zaishen chest and the Urgoz and Deep chests.
In the case of the Zaishen chest, almost all skins drop form there. So if you don't want to depend on the almost non-existand trade system, you will take ages to get the one you want, while in the original campaign you know were to get things. You want an amber staff, you go to echovald. You want a jade staff, you go to the jade sea. It may or may not drop, but you hav a starting point.
To Urgoz and the Deep everyday, while some skins are not rare at all, they are too hard to get inscribed for such common skin. You just have to go to Echovald and kill some stuff. 1 out of 10 items is something made out of amber. The skin is not rare. The occurence of one with the stats you want is. Too much. If you reduce the drop to 1 out of 25 or 50, but make them inscribed, you increase the number of 'usable' ones, without necessarily decreaseing the rarity, if you balance the change correctly.
And some skins are still rare enough even if they were inscribed. I've seen only 2 Jitte drops (one from an Jade Brotherhood, and one for a Sickened Guard in Minister Cho's estate) in my entire gameplay, and Factions is the campaign in which I've played most. All my characters have all Factions Towns unlocked.

And then everything else in the game inscribed. Nightfall, the BMP, Eye of the North and anything new that is added, even if it added to old campaigns (like the Prophecies end-game crafter).

Now. IF we leave rarity and prices behind, there is one REAL problem.

PvP characters could not get different pet evolutions.
Pet evolutions don't make huge diferences, but they were a variable that PvE characters could change, but PvP-only characters could not.
The menagerie fixed that.

But can the PvP Item Creation panel crate all items a PvE character can get?
- No.
And that's the real problem with the old drop system when it comes to game mechanics.
It creates items that PvP characters cannot create.
That's the main thing to change.

It would have been better if all campaigns were the same from the start, with many different skins and everything inscribed, but when new campaign were released, instead adding more skins to old campaigns and making things even, new stuff were added only to new campaigns, almost completely forfeiting retroactivity, and now it's a mistake almost impossible to fix.
A necromancer can get an item in all campaigns (well, in Prophecies and Factions it may be useles req9 Curses stave with +14% casting for divine favor and +17% recharge for Energy Storage, but it's an item anyways) but a Dervish will find skills, armor and weapons only in new campaigns... no good.

How to fix this? Phew... not easy task.

- I would start by adding some more mods to the core system, so it can replicate all items that may drop in Prophecies and Factions. For example, alng the +1/20% item attribute, there would be +1/20% for all particual caster attributes.
Those mods already exist, but only appear in some Prophecies and Factions drops. They can be salvaged an used in other items. So either they disappear from the game, or appear in the PvP item creation panel and Balthazar priest unlocks.

- Then I would add weapon upgrade traders. That would give a bit more value to some Prophecies and Factions drops, since you would be able to salvage and sell those upgrades that drop only in the old system (if they don't make the new system drop them too).
PvP-only characters would be able to mod their stuff without depending on slow direct trades too, and PvE players would be able to make quick changes like they can already with armor if they need to thanks to all the Rune traders that are in most Battle Isles PvP outposts.
Also, those players that get inscribed items (like end-game in Porphecies and th BMP) in areas with no inscribed drops, they won't depend on the slow trading method to get upgrades for them (and most people sell the most used mods, so you may never fin what you want).

And finally, the hard thing.

Once all items can be replicated, there is no PvP/PvE 'unfairness'. And the only thing left to take care of is the disappointment players that start in new style areas will suffer when they go to the old ones and see that around... 99,99% of the drops there suck the big deal compared to the ones they may fin in the new style areas... unless you go to certain places to trade... but what's the point on a weapon drop that won't be used?
Inscriptions don't show when you ping weapons, either, and they don't really make things less rare, it's Hard Mode and farm builds the ones making rare stuff appear more frequently, and people tend to forget that.
Anyways, how do you show off the artificial rarity in the old drops? Opening trades with people around? Posting pictures in forums? The skins are not the rarest thing in those items, but a numeric value that is not visible.
So it's actually a quite pointless rarity.
That rarity existed, was important, and had its value. Now that it's irrelevant, it's like the Emperor's New Suit. It's no longer there, but some 'see' it. Like dying your bags black. A black bag may be something rare and expensive, not no one will se it when you equipt it and so it is pretty pointless.

But if you remove the artificial rarity in Prophecies drops... there's nothing left.
In a huge area that in Nightfall would have many different skins dropping, in Prophecies you'll probably find the same long bow and long sword again and again... and again. Not as extremely as in pre-Searing, but quite close.
You can't remove that artificial rarity without injecting different skins if you plan to keep considering the Campaign as a separate game that can be played standalone.
But will new skins be added to old campaigns? I SERIOUSLY doubt so. And I don't see possible nor viable a 'update pack' that make some items drop for those that pay to update the old campaigns or something like that.

Factions has quite some unique skins, so it would do fine with inscriptions.

And since the main use for those 'rare' P and F drops seem to be trading with them, showing them in forums (and in some cases to inexplicably behave like Gollum with the One Ring with them, XD). It won't harm anyone to add a away to update drops to the inscribed system by customizing them (provided they have a property that can be found as inscription, so you can't inscribe a white or any other item with upgrade slots but no inherent fixed property to replace with an inscribed slot). If anyone needs so hard to prove they have a rare, all they would have to do is keep it not customized, and they will be able to sell it later. And if they want to use it, they would be a able to do os in the full extent. And if you want both to have the rare and customize it... well... everything devalues over time, it can't be stopped, and customization is the most devaluating process in the game, so bear with it.

Anyways, the main thing to change is the differences between PvP and PvE.
That was done already with animals, the 'weird drops' and weapon modding are the next on the list.
Regardless of it affecting old drops, the PvP item creation or both, is a change that must be done to add equality.